I am still in DC and crazy busy but I wanted to post this letter. It is a response to Julie Beck's "A Return to Fascinating Womanhood" talk. (I think she really called it "Mothers Who Know".)
For the record, Julie Beck lives close to my parents in Alpine. Her husband, Ramon, has been the president of Bank of American Fork in Alpine for many years. I highly doubt she ever added water to the milk to make it stretch to the next pay day ... if you know what I mean. Mom said she taught piano for years in her house until she contracted chronic-fatigue. At that point, she did almost nothing but study the scriptures when she could not leave the house due to sickness. She grew up as the child of a mission president, and her parents served several missions in South America when she was a kid.
Is she a simple 1950's housewife like she came across as in conference? I can't answer that question. Personally, after meeting her several times, I didn't think so, and I was very surprised by the tone of her talk.
The talk made a lot of people I know uncomfortable, and I am glad to share this response. It's from a site called http://whatwomenknow.org. It's a little extreme, maybe, in places ("unutterable sadness" caused by the Stripling Warriors story?) but makes some really good points. The site lists the names of the women who wrote or have signed on to the rebuttal, and invites other women to join.
*******
In October 2007, Julie B. Beck, president of the Latter-day Saint women's organization, the Relief Society, gave a speech in the semiannual worldwide General Conference titled “Mothers Who Know.” Beck's focus on LDS families, and more particularly on the role and influence of mothers, is a subject close to our hearts. Who are we? We are women who differ in age, income, race/ethnicity, and marital status. Many of us are mothers, some with exceptionally large families. Some of us are grandmothers and great-grandmothers many times over. Some are young mothers, with infants and elementary-age children. Others of us—for reasons of biology, opportunity, or choice—do not have children. Some of us have never married. Some of us are single because of divorce or widowhood. A few of us have been with the same partner more than 50 years.
We all work—paid or unpaid, both inside and outside our homes. We share many decades of church service among us. In fact, our LDS background is our common denominator.Several ideas within the body of President Beck's talk conflict with our inspiration and experience. We are authors of our own lives, and this is the story we know to be true:
What Women Know
Fathers as well as mothers, men as well as women, are called to nurture. Nurturing is not confined to mothering or housekeeping, but is a universal attribute that communicates patience, peacefulness, and care.
Individuals and relationships flourish when we are able to share not only our strengths but also our mutual imperfections and needs. It is difficult to be compassionate with ourselves and others when we internalize injunctions to perform (e.g., “the highest-performing sister missionary,” “the best homemaker in the world,” “the most patient and loving mother”). Motherhood and sisterhood cannot be reduced to the performance of narrowly-prescribed tasks, but emerge from who we know ourselves to be.
Cleanliness depends upon access to resources and has more to do with priorities than purity of heart. We do not place the additional burden of “outward appearances” on our sisters who are hauling fuel and water long distances; who are struggling with poverty, isolation, or ill health; or who choose values that take precedence over orderly living quarters and polished looks.
Housework is something that grownups do and that children learn by example and instruction. Unfortunately, women and girls still perform the bulk of the world's low-paid and unpaid labor, including housework—often at the expense of their own education, leadership, creativity, health, and well-being. Men and boys who share care-work and household responsibilities make it possible for all family members to live happier, more fulfilling lives.
We reverence the responsibility to choose how, when, and whether we become parents. Many of us have adoptive and foster children and grandchildren from diverse ethnicities and cultures. We have given birth to children who range widely on every dimension—from personality, appearance, and sexual identity to physical, social, and mental ability. No matter what their differences, we care for them all.
Effective parenting is a learned behavior, and, as parents, we learn and grow with each child. Children come with their own gifts, challenges, and freedom of choice. We reject teachings that encourage women to shoulder ultimate responsibility for every aspect of child-rearing and family life, and to take on shame and guilt when things do not go according to plan.
The choice to have children does not rule out other avenues of influence and power. By valuing ourselves as lifelong achievers, apart from our roles as mothers, friends, partners, sisters, aunts, and grandmothers, we stand for creativity, public service, competence, and growth. We take joy in the collective contributions we make in the fields of government, medicine, academia, law, journalism, human services, business, art, health care advocacy, music, technology, child development, and science.
When it comes to employment, most women prefer the luxury of choice to the limitations of necessity. Women-friendly policies such as flex-time and comparable pay for women and men, access to health care, family leave for births and care-work, and affordable, high-quality childcare give all of us—single or partnered, impoverished or privileged—greater choice in how to support ourselves and our families.
We work because we want to; because we need to; and because we have no other choice. We know that “children are more important than possessions, position, and prestige.” Some of us have been thrust into the position of sole economic support of our children through desertion, divorce, domestic violence, or death. Indeed, too many of us have learned that we are just one fully-employed male away from poverty.
Men are our fathers, sons, brothers, partners, lovers, and friends. Many of them also struggle within a system that equates leadership with hierarchy and domination. We distrust separate-but-equal rhetoric; anyone who is regularly reminded that she is “equally important” is probably not. Partnership is illusory without equal decision-making power.
We have discovered that healthy relationships are equitable relationships. A relationship that is balanced in terms of economic and emotional power is safer and more resilient than a relationship in which one partner holds most or all of the power. Women with active support networks and marketable skills have greater options, not only in relationships, but in life.
We claim the life-affirming powers of spirit, breath, and wisdom, and reject the glorification of violence in all its forms. We are filled with unutterable sadness by the Book of Mormon story of more than 2,000 young soldiers whose mothers teach them that faith in God will preserve them in battles in which they kill other mothers' children. This is not a success story. It is a story of the failure of human relationships and the horrors of war. In a world that has grown increasingly violent, we believe that one of the most important passages in LDS scripture is D&C 98:16: “Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace. . . .”
Our roles as mothers, sisters, daughters, partners, and friends are just a few of the many parts we will play in the course of our lives. We may influence hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives. But we are not our roles. We are created in the image of the divine—women of worth in our own right, in our choices, in our individuality, and in our belief that the life story we are ultimately responsible for is our own.
*****
There it is, sistahs. Tell me what you think!
For the record, Julie Beck lives close to my parents in Alpine. Her husband, Ramon, has been the president of Bank of American Fork in Alpine for many years. I highly doubt she ever added water to the milk to make it stretch to the next pay day ... if you know what I mean. Mom said she taught piano for years in her house until she contracted chronic-fatigue. At that point, she did almost nothing but study the scriptures when she could not leave the house due to sickness. She grew up as the child of a mission president, and her parents served several missions in South America when she was a kid.
Is she a simple 1950's housewife like she came across as in conference? I can't answer that question. Personally, after meeting her several times, I didn't think so, and I was very surprised by the tone of her talk.
The talk made a lot of people I know uncomfortable, and I am glad to share this response. It's from a site called http://whatwomenknow.org. It's a little extreme, maybe, in places ("unutterable sadness" caused by the Stripling Warriors story?) but makes some really good points. The site lists the names of the women who wrote or have signed on to the rebuttal, and invites other women to join.
*******
In October 2007, Julie B. Beck, president of the Latter-day Saint women's organization, the Relief Society, gave a speech in the semiannual worldwide General Conference titled “Mothers Who Know.” Beck's focus on LDS families, and more particularly on the role and influence of mothers, is a subject close to our hearts. Who are we? We are women who differ in age, income, race/ethnicity, and marital status. Many of us are mothers, some with exceptionally large families. Some of us are grandmothers and great-grandmothers many times over. Some are young mothers, with infants and elementary-age children. Others of us—for reasons of biology, opportunity, or choice—do not have children. Some of us have never married. Some of us are single because of divorce or widowhood. A few of us have been with the same partner more than 50 years.
We all work—paid or unpaid, both inside and outside our homes. We share many decades of church service among us. In fact, our LDS background is our common denominator.Several ideas within the body of President Beck's talk conflict with our inspiration and experience. We are authors of our own lives, and this is the story we know to be true:
What Women Know
Fathers as well as mothers, men as well as women, are called to nurture. Nurturing is not confined to mothering or housekeeping, but is a universal attribute that communicates patience, peacefulness, and care.
Individuals and relationships flourish when we are able to share not only our strengths but also our mutual imperfections and needs. It is difficult to be compassionate with ourselves and others when we internalize injunctions to perform (e.g., “the highest-performing sister missionary,” “the best homemaker in the world,” “the most patient and loving mother”). Motherhood and sisterhood cannot be reduced to the performance of narrowly-prescribed tasks, but emerge from who we know ourselves to be.
Cleanliness depends upon access to resources and has more to do with priorities than purity of heart. We do not place the additional burden of “outward appearances” on our sisters who are hauling fuel and water long distances; who are struggling with poverty, isolation, or ill health; or who choose values that take precedence over orderly living quarters and polished looks.
Housework is something that grownups do and that children learn by example and instruction. Unfortunately, women and girls still perform the bulk of the world's low-paid and unpaid labor, including housework—often at the expense of their own education, leadership, creativity, health, and well-being. Men and boys who share care-work and household responsibilities make it possible for all family members to live happier, more fulfilling lives.
We reverence the responsibility to choose how, when, and whether we become parents. Many of us have adoptive and foster children and grandchildren from diverse ethnicities and cultures. We have given birth to children who range widely on every dimension—from personality, appearance, and sexual identity to physical, social, and mental ability. No matter what their differences, we care for them all.
Effective parenting is a learned behavior, and, as parents, we learn and grow with each child. Children come with their own gifts, challenges, and freedom of choice. We reject teachings that encourage women to shoulder ultimate responsibility for every aspect of child-rearing and family life, and to take on shame and guilt when things do not go according to plan.
The choice to have children does not rule out other avenues of influence and power. By valuing ourselves as lifelong achievers, apart from our roles as mothers, friends, partners, sisters, aunts, and grandmothers, we stand for creativity, public service, competence, and growth. We take joy in the collective contributions we make in the fields of government, medicine, academia, law, journalism, human services, business, art, health care advocacy, music, technology, child development, and science.
When it comes to employment, most women prefer the luxury of choice to the limitations of necessity. Women-friendly policies such as flex-time and comparable pay for women and men, access to health care, family leave for births and care-work, and affordable, high-quality childcare give all of us—single or partnered, impoverished or privileged—greater choice in how to support ourselves and our families.
We work because we want to; because we need to; and because we have no other choice. We know that “children are more important than possessions, position, and prestige.” Some of us have been thrust into the position of sole economic support of our children through desertion, divorce, domestic violence, or death. Indeed, too many of us have learned that we are just one fully-employed male away from poverty.
Men are our fathers, sons, brothers, partners, lovers, and friends. Many of them also struggle within a system that equates leadership with hierarchy and domination. We distrust separate-but-equal rhetoric; anyone who is regularly reminded that she is “equally important” is probably not. Partnership is illusory without equal decision-making power.
We have discovered that healthy relationships are equitable relationships. A relationship that is balanced in terms of economic and emotional power is safer and more resilient than a relationship in which one partner holds most or all of the power. Women with active support networks and marketable skills have greater options, not only in relationships, but in life.
We claim the life-affirming powers of spirit, breath, and wisdom, and reject the glorification of violence in all its forms. We are filled with unutterable sadness by the Book of Mormon story of more than 2,000 young soldiers whose mothers teach them that faith in God will preserve them in battles in which they kill other mothers' children. This is not a success story. It is a story of the failure of human relationships and the horrors of war. In a world that has grown increasingly violent, we believe that one of the most important passages in LDS scripture is D&C 98:16: “Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace. . . .”
Our roles as mothers, sisters, daughters, partners, and friends are just a few of the many parts we will play in the course of our lives. We may influence hundreds, perhaps thousands of lives. But we are not our roles. We are created in the image of the divine—women of worth in our own right, in our choices, in our individuality, and in our belief that the life story we are ultimately responsible for is our own.
*****
There it is, sistahs. Tell me what you think!
33 comments:
thanks for the background scoop. i think the group written "what women know" was inspiring. (however, i still like the stripling warriors story. i don't think it glorifies violence. they were in desperate straits and their faith got them through.) but the rebuttal is WAY BETTER than the conference talk.
The best version of the Stripling Warriors story ever was when Katie, then about 10, read it one night at family home evening, but subversively switched all the pronouns, making the young women, who listened to the teachings of their daddies, the brave "Lamanettes" who were the heroines of the story.
I did have a bit of a problem with that talk, so this is good to know!
Where did you find that response?
The talk also rubbed me the wrong way, but I think it is more of an issue of someone who maybe has a hard time communicating ideas in a sensitive and inclusive manner. I think Sis. Beck is trying in her talk to value the undervalued work that many mothers spend years doing, not telling women that all other pursuits are unworthy. I have been raised by Feminist parents (they are even Utah Democrats, my dad ran for office on a Democratic ticket) and where, as I said, Sis. Beck rubbed me wrong, responses like this also rub me wrong. People are reading way too much into it and wasting a lot of time. We don't need to make what is perhaps a poorly conceived talk into something divisive. Go clean your kitchen! (Just kidding! It was funny because I was listening to the talk while I was cleaning the kitchen after my husband had done some cooking [he does 98% of our cooking]. I was a little relieved that her injunction to glory in women's work caught me at the right time.)
I remember really liking that talk, but after reading your post, I went back and read it again. I loved it again (besides the part about ironed dresses and, white shirts missionary haircuts--but who cares).
As a woman who has two other jobs (besides motherhood), it was nice to be reminded that motherhood and is, by far, the most important. I loved motherhood being labeled as a leadership position "In equal partnership with their husbands."
I loved being called to do less. Sometimes I often feel stressed and I loved the reminder to delete media, shopping, and unnecessary errands from my list of natural inclinations that WASTE time.
The homemaking part was great too, because I often have a messy house, but when it's clean and orderly I feel way more peaceful, which directly affects my family. If a messy house doesn't bother you, then ignore that part.
"Mothers who know" was a title that, to me, represents a deeper understanding that that life is about beauty, relationships, and love. All the titles and adjectives that she threw out as subtopics (from her subtitles: honor, nurturer, leader, teacher, strength) felt impowering to me.
So, maybe this talk didn't apply to everyones situation...a lot of talks don't. I tune out when they start talking out older couples serving missions...or whatever.
it just bothers me when people got all offended or bothered by something that they disagree with. you have your right to your opinion and doctrine has always encouraged us to gain your own testimony of everything. so if you believe contrary, great, but don't get offended when someone has a different opinion. that's lame. i hear all the time how it's best to be home, but i KNOW it's best for me to work so nothing anyone says bothers me.
I think women who KNOW anything won't be offended by the contrary, no matter what position you take.
one more thing--
7/8 of that whole rebuttal said nothing contrary to her talk at all. you easily believe both her talk and all those concepts.
marco, that is SO great. I love it...the lamenettes!
andi, when i said the rebuttal (which maybe isn't really a rebuttal but a companion response) was way better i just mean it resounds with me more. much more. (like neal a. maxwell resounded with me more than say...ok! no more playing favorites! =)
p.s. is there really such a thing as sweet pickle pie?
i hope no one thought i was directing this at them personally. i had heard complaints about the talk before this post. i was just speaking generally.
Sweet Pickle Pie, from Sunglow
(it really is good. For more interesting pies check out pieofthemonth.org)
5 eggs
2 cups sugar
1 tsp. cinnamon
1 tsp. nutmeg
1 tsp. lemon extract
2 tbsp. cornstarch
1 cup + 2 tbsp. light cream
1/8 cup margarine, melted
12 oz. sweet pickles, drained and ground
2 unbaked 9-inch pie shells
Beat eggs and sugar until lemon colored and thick; beat in cinnamon, nutmeg, lemon extract, cornstarch, cream and margarine. Stir ground sweet pickles into mixture.
Pour pickle mixture into unbaked pie shell. Bake at 350 degrees for one hour to one hour and 15 minutes, until a knife inserted in center comes out clean.
Makes two pies.
thanks for the recipe stuckihouse! cinnamon with pickles, ey? sounds like a pie that requires a leap of faith before the first bite.
andi,
back to fascinating womanhood...i remember your amazing old church book finds from D.I. and marveling over how much has changed for women in the mormon church. for instance GAs applauding women for having 15 children and scorning women and men who chose to limit family size. I also remember studying in other books what Spencer Kimball wrote recommending such things as women ironing out their eccentricities, etc. to be more acceptable as a potential mate. It's very amusing and yet I'm sad for the women who seriously tried to minimize their weirdness (which i think is their coolness) so they can improve their chances at happiness through marriage in this life. But words uttered over the pulpit are often quickly forgotten and books are donated to D.I. and little boy haircuts are allowed to grow out because sometimes their hair is so beautiful it just needs to unfurl past the missionary length.
I'm fully aware that, at least in this circle of friends, I get the eye roll behind my back a lot for being cheesy and liking the fact that my husband works and I get to stay home and do all that that means. And you know what else? I full on count on the fact that he will always work or I'm totally screwed because I have no desire to work making my laziness look heroic. The fact is D&C 50 is just the truth...if you go into something without the spirit and without a prayer to at least TRY and understand if not the point, then at least the love behind it, I don't really know what to say.yes I do...SIT DOWN AND LISTEN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN IF YOU HAVE KIDS BUT AT LEAST MAKE AN EFFORT TO ACTUALLY FEEL THE SPIRIT!Conference is not a pulpit for social and political reform and every single body should just get the whole conspiracy theory junk out of it. Maybe I'm just a wide eyed idealist but Julie Beck loves women and so does everyone in leadership that I've ever been in the same ward with or known...just choose to hear that someone cares and not all the drama...sheesh. It's God's church for goodness sake, not Julie Beck's.
my response to this talk when i was listening to it was something like this: "this sounds pretty great and is a nice ideal. it has nothing whatsoever to do with my life right now." then i started thinking "why is there only one woman speaking in conference? and why is she talking about this? all the other talks are by men, and they can and do talk about whatever cool stuff they want to talk about." but i'm sure it's important to sort of reiterate ideals of womanhood.
i like it better when women speak to everyone though, the way most of the men do. my favorite talk maybe ever is "the power of goodness" by janette hales beckham. she talks about motherhood, but as an illustration of a general principles of righteousness that could apply to anyone. it's inspiring.
I'm Brooklyn's sister and found it comforting to read this. I was one of the uncomfortable ones while listening to her talk: Be perfect. Be perfect. This is perfection...Be perfect. It did bother me, but she didn't say anything new. I guess she was too bold for me in a time when I thought we were finally starting to accept variation in what mothering means to so many people. I appreciate her perspective, but I'm not going to iron Eliza's tights over it! Thanks for sharing.
The thing that bothered be most, though, was how she stated more than once that Latter-day Saint women are "the best." Lame. Glad I didn't bring an investigator...
Far too often I've seen couples have more kids than they can handle because they've believed that they've been commanded to by the church. I, myself, believe in responsible families.
If you can't take care of them, you should not be having them. If that means you have to go to work to provide for the kids you had, then you better make it work. No excuses, no 'happy' drugs, no whining.
I do believe in balance, but sometimes the balance scale will span several years before things swing back, maybe a lifetime. You do what you have to do.
I'm sorry, but in my years of watching; the families I've seen, yes they may be all righteous-seeming, but when you delve deeper you see a dad that has collapsed from nervous exhaustion and is no longer capable of working. A mother that has 3 children and has suffered 4 miscarriages and keeps on trying because she is supposed to keep having them. Her health in jeopardy, the children and the housework are deeply neglected. They live on welfare and the charity of others.
Is this what we want? Is this a Christ-like family? Do the children benefit from this kind of care?
Like I said, you do what you have to do. If you, as a wife and mother, have to work, then you do it.
p.s. My husband shares in our housework the same as I share in the wage-earning. I know that my grown children benefitted from having a dad that read to them at night, a dad that cooked, cleaned and did laundry. When we were faced with the choice of welfare or me going to work, I went to work.
Wow! What a discussion. I feel I ought to add my thoughts, since I am currently able to stay home with my daughter and I thoroughly enjoy it. I planned on returning to work after our daughter was born, both because we needed the income and because I thought I would want to. However, after she was born, my husband got a job that made more than both our previous incomes combined, and I found I didn't want to part with my little one. I am fortunate to be in a situation where working is an option--both because I have advanced education and preparation, and because of my husband's earning potential. I know that the grand majority don't have the option to decide what would be best for their family's unique needs.
Now, on to the talk and the counter-talk. I had to look back on my notes, because I didn't remember it being as devisive as the response made it seem. The things that most stood out to me (aka the things I wrote down) seemed to apply to mothers in a variety of situations--not just priviledged, single income mothers. Here are some of my notes:
"Responsibility of mothers never required more diligence. Mothers need not fear. When mothers know who they are, who God is, and have a testimony they will be blessed with great power. There is eternal influence and power in motherhood. Make a home that nurtures spiritual growth. Be a leader and a planner. Build children into future leaders. Mothers who know do less--less media, less distraction, consume less."
Apparently I filtered out any messages of staying home is the only option, women have to be perfect, and/or women have to a a gazillion children to be good church members.
I think we all need to do the best we can in the situation we are in. The point is to serve others and become more like our Father in Heaven every day, right? Each situation requires seeking to know from God what is the best thing for your family (btw, I fully believe that in many instances the best thing CAN be for the mom to work outside the home).
I just realized that the talk that I am referring to is the one she gave at the Women's Broadcast. I think the talk you're referring to has some similar elements, but it doesn't really relate to what I felt when I heard her speak the first time at the Broadcast.
I second Erin's comment. I was too busy translating conference into Farsi to hear the talk, but after reading it I have to say, I loved it. I could work in one of my chosen fields; teaching, voice over radio girl, Farsi translator, exotic dancer, (and I do part time, if Isaac can watch the kids), but to leave them while they are young, it's just not worth it for me. I actually enjoy being around them! I want to be with my kids,go thrift shopping, clean my house and do the laundry...don't feel bad for me. Isaac is the one who has to deal with his witch boss on the Hill while I kiss Soraya and dance to Mika's song "Big Girl" over and over agian. Funny, that talk would offend more women in Iran, than it would here. They equate sucess more with degrees and titles, work and prestige than they do with marriage and having children. At least in the West there is a movement towards appreciating and valuing motherhood, wheras in Iran, it is looked down upon by so many "modern thinkers". That to me is a tragedy. Thank goodness for talks of this nature. Millions of women in Iran feel like their lives have no value because they are "simply" homemakers.(and they are bloody good at it!)
Dear Andi-- I'm so glad your my friend--I've taken to checking your blog when I want another sunny spot in the day. Heretic that you know me to be I didn't know about the uproar surrounding Sister Beck's talk until I read the Tribune this morning. If I recall, the War in Heaven was fought over free agency. I believe the Lord expects us to think for ourself, ask Him for advice if we need it and if we screw it up, he expects us to fix it. That said, I don't think there are very many women in the world who don't wake up each morning hoping to do the best they can, for their families, friends and life in general. Unfortunately, sometimes at the end of the day we have regrets but we just try to do better the next day.
I remember a friend in Jr. High School who could never invite us to her house to play because we "might step on one of the fluffy rugs" scattered all over the house. So much for perfect housekeeping.
I also remember a profound moment around the age of 14 when I realized that I didn't believe that "LDS" people were better than everybody else. Before you panic you should know that when I was 14 it was 1957 and I was on my way home from MIA.
I did a good deed for a stranger last Saturday and she tearfully said "I'll bet your a really good Mormon" and I said "No, not really but I am a good Christian".
P.S. Thanks for the Pickle Pie recipe.
oh, and I forgot to say, this woman who started the website, she really does need to get a life, bless her. If she lives in Utah, she needs to leave. This type of hoo haa over a General Conference talk could only happen out there. (does she live in sugarhouse?)And the Stripling Warrior comment....please luv.
I have to say ... I am really enjoying this string of comments. The most interesting thing is the bell curve of ideas and the corresponding ages of the women commenting. With little exception, I have seen the most support for Julie Beck come from the younger women in my circle of friends (and new friend that I am meeting for the first time through their comments. Thanks for leaving comments.)
How interesting that the woman who have the most supportive husbands and lots of options in life are the ones feeling best about being at home with their kids. And the older women who have spent years putting their houses in order so they function even when they are away for an hour or two during the day feel a little bit betrayed.
I think it is interesting how, for years, we had women like Chieko and Sheri (or as I call her "Our Lovely Virgen Sheri of the Holy Deseret".) Both women have been career oriented with out compromising their spirituality. Granted, they are both in very different phases of their lives than I am with my two little babies in tow. Having said that, Julie Beck is also in a different phase of life than I am.
I think it really comes back to the kind of men we live with -- or don't live with in the case of my single friends. The other day my mother-in-law was watching Marco fold towels and made the comment that never in her life did she see either her father or her husband fold as much as a washcloth. There are days when I think Marco is a better mother than I am. He is the easiest person in the world to share a house with. With him it is easy to be a stay at home mom. With anyone else, I think I would want to be working 9 to 5 to make enough to pay the housekeeper.
I guess I want to say that it is lovely to be home, especially with nicest man in he world, but let's not forget it was not always this easy. I remember my grandmother saying at 78 that all her life men had been telling her what to do. First it was her father and then it was her husband and finally, they when they had both died, she wasn't ready for anyone to tell her what to do. Funny how life experience governs agency, and choices seems a more valuable currency when energy is less abundant.
I signed the response.
maybe i'm wrong, but it seems like the talk was validating to women who are in the ideal situation she's describing, so those of you who are in that situation didn't feel uncomfortable at all. my life is so far removed from what she was describing that it made me feel weird about myself. that isn't to say that the talk was out of line; those were just my feelings.
i guess the issue for me is that the context of conference is that we're getting instructions for how to live in some sense. and it's hard when you feel your life (for reasons beyond your control) is so far removed from what you're being told it should be if you're really a true disciple. and of course i realize that's not what she meant; it's just a visceral, emotional response. those of you who are lucky enough to be in ideal circumstances naturally wouldn't have this same response.
Emily
I don't feel like I am in an ideal situation. I didn't like the talk for that reason. Yes, Isaac is a very easy husband to live with, but I think the talk was simply validating what we do everyday.(I will be the first to admit that it is very crappy at times).The world does respect educated women like yourself who have "real" jobs, more than they do women like me, who apparently don't work and are "just stay at home mums". I get that question all the time, "So do you work or are you at home?" Insulting, but sadly so true. Funny how I don't "work" but if I was to leave my kids in a daycare centre all day or with a Nanny, the role of caregiver would automatically be legitimate, because they get paid and I don't.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that it is nice to just be acknowledged and appreciated at times. I don't think it was meant to put down working women or educated women. I am educated, but if society won't give me any praise for the long hours I put into unpaid work, it is nice to hear it from somewhere. The next best thing to a pay cheque I suppose.
I am one who enjoys most housework and I am blessed with a husband who is up for anything. I still feel uneasy about the talk. I just don't understand how this can be the most important subject for the women of our time. General Conference seemed to be the wrong place for this kind of a talk. If I had heard a similar talk (minus all the very American superficialities) in my ward in a more immediate setting I would not have such an aversion against her tone.
It seems that there are more important things to discuss in GC. Especially for LDS women who are being torn in many directions and many of whom do not cope well with the pressures of life.
I felt like having one last stab at a dead horse. (Betty Jo would love that line. Tears would stroll down her cheeks with laughter.) This is my final answer on Julie Beck's talk.
First and foremost, the most obvious thing I see is that women are not unified with each other because of this talk. An invitation to all women, not just mothers, to do one thing less to make more of our relationship with the Lord would have been a better way of getting at her point.
What about my uterus makes me so special that I am part of the only group of women worth Sis. Beck's attention during the most highly viewed session of conference? I don't think we (those of us with nice kids, great husbands and creative cooking abilities) are the ones who need to be told, "You deserve praise". We get praise all the time. We are firmly rooted in fabulous families who think we're rock stars. Do you have a darling child, a sexy husband and a stylish home with tile? Poor thing, let me help you with that.
My worry is for those of us who are one cold shoulder away from feeling we are out of The Club. Are you over 30 with no husband? Have you been married for more than 2 years with out having babies? Are you a single mother? Well then, I am sorry, ladies, you will all have to find different shpiritutall guidance.
Even those of us IN the club need as much self confidence as Brooklyn to say who-cares to fairly strong points like clean white shirts and working outside the home. Or, as Anne said, "the talk rubbed me the wrong way but I think it is more of an issue of someone who maybe has a hard time communicating ideas in a sensitive and inclusive manner." Tell me, what part of speaking to 10 MILLION MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN as the leader of the LARGEST WOMEN'S ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD makes it OK for someone to be insensitive and noninclusive? Her talk was not life changing to us, the choir, sisters. Her talk was life changing to the woman who has long suspected she was no longer singing from the same music as the as the rest of us.
I worry that her talk was also life changing to the man with a wife who wants to go back to school instead of wash his socks all day long. Maybe her talk was life changing to the teenage slacker who's mother wonders where she went wrong with this kid. Did she try to do too much when he was little? Would he be in the mission field if she had made him wear a white shirt every Sunday?
Next conference I hope Sis. Beck will find someone to help her write a talk that puts a verbal arm around many more women who need to feel like they are 'in' and not 'out' of our little girl's club. Isn't it nicer when someone issues an invitation instead of a requirement?
Are you a MOTHER? Do you KNOW the the answer? Those are two very big requirements for membership in the largest women's organization in the whole world.
THIS IS FROM STUCKI-HOUSE: (I moved it to this post because this is the same discussion. Thanks, Anne.)
Andi-I would like to clarify the part of my comment you quoted, because I feel misunderstood. Can you imagine addressing a group of 10 million people and having your comments apply and be relevant to everyone? I understood Sister Beck better when I considered what the goals of her talk were. Her thesis seems to be “When mothers know who they are and who God is and have made covenants with Him, they will have great power and influence for good on their children”. She was addressing the mothers of the church. She never claimed to be speaking to all the men, women and children of the church. That kind of focus is pretty common in GC. I’ve frequently spaced my way through conference talks directed at youth, or seniors who they’re trying to get to go on missions. I do not expect all conference talks to apply directly to me. If she is going to talk about motherhood, I don’t think she should have to spend half her talk apologizing to all the people who might feel excluded. Also, some conference talks are aimed to include those who feel marginalized, but it doesn’t follow that all talks must be. Some talks, in fact probably most, are intended to be a restatement of ideals.
We are coming from a few years of RS leaders with different perspectives that helped more people feel included. I feel like we cannot be over-critical of Sister Beck until we all have also been Relief Society General President and are asked to give a talk about the influence of mothers on their children. I do not have to agree with the delivery, (but in my re-reading of it I am less offended, except the don’t delay childbearing comment. A young women who gets married at 20 hopefully has lots of childbearing in her future and getting an education will only make her children more educated and prepare her for the future, which has also been said by our current Prophet.) But I believe in the principles. The examples she uses in her talk to illustrate principles (ie: woman in developing nation grooms children carefully to honor the covenant of the Sacrament) have been understood as some kind of attack on those whose daughters have ratty pigtails at church. If you have to read something in to justify the offense you’re taking, then CHOOSE to not be offended. By the same token, Men who are determined to subjugate their wives are choosing what to hear and what not to. Any man who thinks controlling his wife and children is in line with priesthood responsibility has had to ignore Pres. Hinckley in virtually every priesthood session for the last 10 years. Brian feels that GC talks have encouraged him to be more nurturing as a man and not to just adhere to older gender roles.
I wish I could talk to the many LDS Philipina women I met in Israel about this talk. Many of them had to leave their families for years to be migrant workers in order to send money home. The separation is very painful for them, but they are amazing faithful sisters. I know God knows their hearts and their motivations, as He does all of us. I doubt they are quick to offend like we are, but hang on to what they know is true. Hang on sisters! We will all be better off when we are not quick to be offended and we stop judging each other (including Sister Beck) and ourselves.
nadja, it must be hard to feel that what you do isn't validated. and of course raising children isn't ideal in the sense of easy or blissful. but it is what most women are shooting for, and if you're going to have children, probably the ideal way to raise them is to have one parent at home. sad to say it, but basically my energies have been focused on getting myself into that kind of situation my whole adult life so far.
i think my point is just that yes, mothers do need validation. and so do single women, and single mothers, and older women, and fathers, and... if only one woman is going to speak in general conference, when she speaks only about motherhood, and only about one kind of motherhood, chances are some people are going to feel left out. maybe that's their fault, or maybe they should just deal with those feelings on their own. maybe we should have more women speaking in conference so they can cover more ground!!
nadia, i spelled your name with a j. sorry!
I've read and heard a lot of negative responses on her talk, but it was one of my favorites this conference. Since quitting work a little over a year ago because of an out-of-state move and a young baby, I've had a really hard time feeling comfortable about my role. I love being with my girl, but the adjustment to lonely full-time mom (husband in med school and rarely around plus, for the first time, having a hard time making friends), away from the fun and camaraderie of the working world has been almost unbearable at times. Julie Beck's talk made me feel validated in the difficult choice I did make to stay at home. I will say that it was never my dream to grow up, get married, and be a stay-at-home mom, but it has become one of the most fulfilling things I have ever done. I am not the perfect mother or cook or housekeeper, but during the talk, the Spirit told me that the decision I had made was the right one for us, and it made me cherish the relationship I have with my daughter even more. I think she meant for women to feel the joy, power and responsibility of their roles, not feel disheartened because they don't measure up.
Thank you so much! Your post led me to Mrs. Beck's beautiful speech! I wish we had ladies like Mrs. Beck in my church (we're Catholic and our parish is knee-deep in feminism). Mrs. Beck's intended audience was women--not men and women--and she makes her audience clear. Had she been addressing both genders, perhaps her remarks would have been more inclusive. I'm also familiar with the book Fascinating Womanhood and see little resemblance between the speech and the book.
CindyBear- You're Catholic and you are familiar with Fascinating Womanhood? I never knew the book reach such a wide audience.
I am glad you enjoyed Julie Beck's talk and I definitely think you would really like going to Relief Society (of which Sis. Beck is the president) at the nearest LDS church.
Thanks for reading.
Ijust came upon this blog and I wanted to share how sister Beck's talk “Women who know”, affected me.
I loved her talk because it spoke to my spirit and filled my heart with gladness to be a woman, a wife, a mother, a grandmother, a sister and so many other things that make me who I am. I loved her talk because it was courageous and inspiring even tough I do not fill the stereotype of a “stay at home mother and wife.” I am a professional woman with advanced degrees who went back to work full time because of my husband's poor health, but I do not apologize for it, I know it was the right thing to do. Our family had to make many adjustments and it was not easy, but we had a great family life. I may not agree with all of Sister Beck's talk but her words did not wound me, offend me or made me feel defensive, diminished or abused, on the contrary I found her talk delightful, inspiring and gutsy.
I am thankful for women like Sister Beck who speak of what they know with assurance, without guile, and without apologies.
From a woman who knows who she is,
Esperanza Merino-Redelfs
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